How bumblebees fly - solved

[r***@hotmail.com]

A Russian entomologist has finally solved the problem which has
puzzled Americans for almost 200 years as to how bumblebees are able
to fly even though they appear to defy the law of physics.

"Viktor S. Grebennikov is the scientist - naturalist, professional
entomologist, gifted painter and, on the whole, comprehensively
well-educated specialist with a wide spectrum of interests. For
many people and scientists in Russia he is well-known as discoverer
of cavity structural effect (CSE). But is far from being all are
acquainted with his other opening, also borrowed from among
concealed secrets of living Nature. In 1988 he found out
antigravitational effects of chitinous shells of some insects species.
But the most astonishing attendant phenomenon associated with
antigravity was a phenomenon all on its own either partial
invisibility, or deformed visual perception of the material object
which was located in a zone of nulled gravitation. Based on this
opportunity and by using bionics principles, the author designed and
built an antigravitational platform, and also developed principles of
practical manned flight with the speed up to 1,500 km/hr. Since the
years 1991-92 years the device was used by the author as a means of
rapid transport. "

http://www.amasci.com/greb/greb2.html

[Mas Plak]

Post by r***@hotmail.com
A Russian entomologist has finally solved the problem which has
puzzled Americans for almost 200 years as to how bumblebees are able
to fly even though they appear to defy the law of physics.
"Viktor S. Grebennikov is the scientist - naturalist, professional
entomologist, gifted painter and, on the whole, comprehensively
well-educated specialist with a wide spectrum of interests. For
many people and scientists in Russia he is well-known as discoverer
of cavity structural effect (CSE). But is far from being all are
acquainted with his other opening, also borrowed from among
concealed secrets of living Nature. In 1988 he found out
antigravitational effects of chitinous shells of some insects species.
But the most astonishing attendant phenomenon associated with
antigravity was a phenomenon all on its own either partial
invisibility, or deformed visual perception of the material object
which was located in a zone of nulled gravitation. Based on this
opportunity and by using bionics principles, the author designed and
built an antigravitational platform, and also developed principles of
practical manned flight with the speed up to 1,500 km/hr. Since the
years 1991-92 years the device was used by the author as a means of
rapid transport. "

so, he does all this when he puts on his Bee uniform ?

[Dwib]

But suriously, what is the answer to this. I mean, it's almost an
urban legend that Bumblebees aren't "supposed to" be able to fly.

Is there an brief answer? Like, aerodynamic laws need to be altered
for tiny objects or, hee hee, anti-gravity particles in bee bodies?

Dwib

[j***@specsol.spam.sux.com]

Post by Dwib
But suriously, what is the answer to this. I mean, it's almost an
urban legend that Bumblebees aren't "supposed to" be able to fly.
Is there an brief answer? Like, aerodynamic laws need to be altered
for tiny objects or, hee hee, anti-gravity particles in bee bodies?
Dwib

It is an urban legend.

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/HalfaWing.HTM
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040911/mathtrek.asp
http://www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=41

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by j***@specsol.spam.sux.com

Post by Dwib
But suriously, what is the answer to this. I mean, it's almost an
urban legend that Bumblebees aren't "supposed to" be able to fly.
Is there an brief answer? Like, aerodynamic laws need to be altered
for tiny objects or, hee hee, anti-gravity particles in bee bodies?
Dwib

It is an urban legend.
http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/HalfaWing.HTMhttp://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040911/mathtrek.asphttp://www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=41
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.

I believe they do it with their wings!!

[Edward Green]

Post by j***@specsol.spam.sux.com

Post by Dwib
But suriously, what is the answer to this. I mean, it's almost an
urban legend that Bumblebees aren't "supposed to" be able to fly.
Is there an brief answer? Like, aerodynamic laws need to be altered
for tiny objects or, hee hee, anti-gravity particles in bee bodies?
Dwib

It is an urban legend.
http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/HalfaWing.HTM
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040911/mathtrek.asp
http://www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=41

The first debunking is best: the bottom line is, power to weight.

The second two begin to buy into the idea that there is something
mysterious to "explain", but talking about complicated motions of
insect wings, and so on. All an insect needs to do to stay aloft is
to inject sufficient momentum into the air to counter gravity:
sailplanes may handle this requirement more efficiently than jump-
jets, but the requirement remains the same.

Bumble bees seem to fall somewhere near the p-47 level on this
continuum: loud, buzzing, and manuverable.

[Uncle Al]

Post by Dwib
But suriously, what is the answer to this. I mean, it's almost an
urban legend that Bumblebees aren't "supposed to" be able to fly.
Is there an brief answer? Like, aerodynamic laws need to be altered
for tiny objects or, hee hee, anti-gravity particles in bee bodies?

Bumblebee wings are neither smooth nor flat as assumed in the
primitive analysis. Listen to a pigeon' wings slap together at the
top stroke upon takeoff. That does not obtain in level flight.

Bernoulli's law only lofts a wing in 2-D. In 3-D a major component of
lift is end-of-wing vortex shedding, hence winglets and the
inadvisability of a Cessna taking off or landing behind a jumbo jet.

US Pat. 6484968

[G=EMC^2 Glazier]

Uncle-Al (Of Irvine) Bees and humming birds have the same wing mobility
A bee can fly a model plane that is just as heavy as it is. If you
would a picture of a bee flying such a plane I built for it email me
Bert

[Edward Green]

Post by G=EMC^2 Glazier
Uncle-Al (Of Irvine) Bees and humming birds have the same wing mobility
A bee can fly a model plane that is just as heavy as it is. If you
would a picture of a bee flying such a plane I built for it email me

That's cool, though possibly cruel to bees. How did you harness a
live bee?

You realize the "just as heavy as it is" is a red herring: it sounds
like it should be surprising, but why? Think of the bee as the
motor. What's the ratio of the engine weight to total take-off weight
of a 747? Though perhaps you will say we should include fuel and
flight systems: but one of the anti-urban legend links posted
mentioned some commercial aircraft which, if we don't fuel for a very
long flight, can certainly take off with a payload exceeding airframe
and fuel weight.

[Edward Green]

Post by Uncle Al

Post by Dwib
But suriously, what is the answer to this. I mean, it's almost an
urban legend that Bumblebees aren't "supposed to" be able to fly.
Is there an brief answer? Like, aerodynamic laws need to be altered
for tiny objects or, hee hee, anti-gravity particles in bee bodies?

Bumblebee wings are neither smooth nor flat as assumed in the
primitive analysis. Listen to a pigeon' wings slap together at the
top stroke upon takeoff. That does not obtain in level flight.
Bernoulli's law only lofts a wing in 2-D. In 3-D a major component of
lift is end-of-wing vortex shedding ...

For suitable values of "component". Given that a wing redirects air
down, as it must, in the simple Newtonian picture of flight, and that
the area adjacent to the wing, where the wing is not, does not
redirect air down, we have a shear flow, and that implies Vorticity,
with a capital V.

Vorticity must be associated with the simple picture, but assigning it
some oolie-ish role is oolificacious. I guess we should add in
"turbulence", which is what spontaneously converts the nice laminar
looking flow which we might have had to the obviously vorticial flow
which we do have, but the angular momentum was already implied in the
shear.

Post by Uncle Al
... hence winglets and the
inadvisability of a Cessna taking off or landing behind a jumbo jet.
US Pat. 6484968
--
Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

[z]

Post by Dwib
But suriously, what is the answer to this. I mean, it's almost an
urban legend that Bumblebees aren't "supposed to" be able to fly.
Is there an brief answer? Like, aerodynamic laws need to be altered
for tiny objects or, hee hee, anti-gravity particles in bee bodies?
Dwib

last time I checked (reliable source, college entomologist) the
explanation was that at room temp outside, on cooler days anyway, the
little guys' motors don't have enough oomph; but since biological
processes are temperature dependent, they shiver the muscles until
they warm up and away they go.

similar "pseudo-warmblooded" behavior is found in tuna, where the red
meat represents muscle which during operation is quite a bit warmer
than ambient temp, which gives the tuna the ability to swim as fast as
it does.

[Bumblebee Man]

Post by r***@hotmail.com
A Russian entomologist has finally solved the problem which has
puzzled Americans for almost 200 years as to how bumblebees are able
to fly even though they appear to defy the law of physics.
"Viktor S. Grebennikov is the scientist - naturalist, professional
entomologist, gifted painter and, on the whole, comprehensively
well-educated specialist with a wide spectrum of interests. For
many people and scientists in Russia he is well-known as discoverer
of cavity structural effect (CSE). But is far from being all are
acquainted with his other opening, also borrowed from among
concealed secrets of living Nature. In 1988 he found out
*antigravitational effects* STOP READING IDIOCY HERE

[Uncle Al]

Post by r***@hotmail.com
A Russian entomologist has finally solved the problem which has
puzzled Americans for almost 200 years as to how bumblebees are able
to fly even though they appear to defy the law of physics.

[snip crap]

Cavorite wedged in their little bumblebee bums. That is why NASA has
a truly massive bumblebee breeding program to revolutionize Man in
Space. ISS FUBAR is a huge TOP SECRET/Lotus Eater apiary where no
Commie atom spy can penetrate. Alas, the Cavorite is not endogenously
catabolized but is bioaccumulated from unidentified external
input(s). More studies are needed!

Post by r***@hotmail.com
In 1988 he found out
antigravitational effects of chitinous shells of some insects species.

[snip rest of crap]

Sigh.

[Benj]

Post by Uncle Al

Post by r***@hotmail.com
A Russian entomologist has finally solved the problem which has
puzzled Americans for almost 200 years as to how bumblebees are able
to fly even though they appear to defy the law of physics.

[snip crap]
Cavorite wedged in their little bumblebee bums. That is why NASA has
a truly massive bumblebee breeding program to revolutionize Man in
Space. ISS FUBAR is a huge TOP SECRET/Lotus Eater apiary where no
Commie atom spy can penetrate. Alas, the Cavorite is not endogenously
catabolized but is bioaccumulated from unidentified external
input(s). More studies are needed!

Post by r***@hotmail.com
In 1988 he found out
antigravitational effects of chitinous shells of some insects species.

[snip rest of crap]
Sigh.

I"m afraid only Uncle Al perceived the essence of this post! It's NOT
about the old saw of bumble bees flying, it's about this clown's claim
that certain insect cells have anti-gravity properties. It's been
around a LONG time. Just one more Russian money-making scam. For a
REAL laugh get on the net and take a gander at his home-made so-called
anti-gravity platform! Not only is it laughably crude but the physics
is such that it's totally unstable. It'd dump you off the second you
left the ground even if it actually worked! B movie stuff! :-)

[Edward Green]

Post by Benj

Post by Uncle Al

Post by r***@hotmail.com
A Russian entomologist has finally solved the problem which has
puzzled Americans for almost 200 years as to how bumblebees are able
to fly even though they appear to defy the law of physics.

[snip crap]
Cavorite wedged in their little bumblebee bums. That is why NASA has
a truly massive bumblebee breeding program to revolutionize Man in
Space. ISS FUBAR is a huge TOP SECRET/Lotus Eater apiary where no
Commie atom spy can penetrate. Alas, the Cavorite is not endogenously
catabolized but is bioaccumulated from unidentified external
input(s). More studies are needed!

Post by r***@hotmail.com
In 1988 he found out
antigravitational effects of chitinous shells of some insects species.

[snip rest of crap]
Sigh.

I"m afraid only Uncle Al perceived the essence of this post! It's NOT
about the old saw of bumble bees flying, it's about this clown's claim
that certain insect cells have anti-gravity properties. It's been
around a LONG time. Just one more Russian money-making scam.

I noticed that part... but debunking modern folklore is so satisfying
that one will do it at the merest pretext.

Speaking of folklore, the local paper here reports that a seven foot
python actually did actually emerge from a toilet, though nobody is
quite sure how it got in the pipe, and mentioned that the urban legend
of reptiles in the sewer system being an urban legend has now been in
fact debunked. It seems possible, though, since plumbers had to break
the pipes to get the snake out after it retreated so that only its
head was showing in the bowl, that the alleged victim had invited the
serpent into her bathroom herself, and only concocted the story about
it coming out of the toilet when the snake hid in the bowl, and
realized that when people finally stopped laughing she might be
charged for the repairs.

History teaches us not to trust stories women tell about meetings with
snakes.

[j***@aol.com]

In article <***@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Edward Green <***@netzero.com> wrote:
<snip>

Post by Edward Green
Speaking of folklore, the local paper here reports that a seven foot
python actually did actually emerge from a toilet, though nobody is
quite sure how it got in the pipe, and mentioned that the urban legend
of reptiles in the sewer system being an urban legend has now been in
fact debunked. It seems possible, though, since plumbers had to break
the pipes to get the snake out after it retreated so that only its
head was showing in the bowl, that the alleged victim had invited the
serpent into her bathroom herself, and only concocted the story about
it coming out of the toilet when the snake hid in the bowl, and
realized that when people finally stopped laughing she might be
charged for the repairs.

It is was in an apartment house, how many couldn't flush and for how
long?

Post by Edward Green
History teaches us not to trust stories women tell about meetings with
snakes.

<GRIN>

[G=EMC^2 Glazier]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Edward Green]

Post by G=EMC^2 Glazier
Edward I have shown a bee can lift twice its own weight. with no
problem. Bee flies with the physics of a helicopter and fix wing and
does the rotation so fast it gives the air a buzzing sound. It like the
humming bird can fly backwards. What adds to the mystery of its wings
when moving they are invisible. My fast photography(faster than a
strobe) stops their wings in flight. They are great flyers,but the
praying mantis is "top gun" Fastest is the horse fly. Fire flies are
very interesting,and like to have their light on while having sex.

I watched a spider kill a trapped horsefly. It buzzed with great fly
power and almost broke free of the web, but each time it stopped the
spider ran in and applied more silk. The buzzing became weaker and
more intermittant, and in the end, it became spider food.

Blue bottle flies are strong enough and will eventually tear
themselves apart when caught on fly paper. At first inhibitory
reflexes protect them, but eventually hunger and thirst overcomes
these reflexes, like a person who cuts off a foot to escape a bear
trap.

[andy everett]

Post by r***@hotmail.com
A Russian entomologist has finally solved the problem which has
puzzled Americans for almost 200 years as to how bumblebees are able
to fly even though they appear to defy the law of physics.
"Viktor S. Grebennikov is the scientist - naturalist, professional
entomologist, gifted painter and, on the whole, comprehensively
well-educated specialist with a wide spectrum of interests. For
many people and scientists in Russia he is well-known as discoverer
of cavity structural effect (CSE). But is far from being all are
acquainted with his other opening, also borrowed from among
concealed secrets of living Nature. In 1988 he found out
antigravitational effects of chitinous shells of some insects species.
But the most astonishing attendant phenomenon associated with
antigravity was a phenomenon all on its own either partial
invisibility, or deformed visual perception of the material object
which was located in a zone of nulled gravitation. Based on this
opportunity and by using bionics principles, the author designed and
built an antigravitational platform, and also developed principles of
practical manned flight with the speed up to 1,500 km/hr. Since the
years 1991-92 years the device was used by the author as a means of
rapid transport. "
http://www.amasci.com/greb/greb2.html

[tadchem]

Post by r***@hotmail.com
A Russian entomologist has finally solved the problem which has
puzzled Americans for almost 200 years as to how bumblebees are able
to fly even though they appear to defy the law of physics.
"Viktor S. Grebennikov is the scientist - naturalist, professional
entomologist, gifted painter and, on the whole, comprehensively
well-educated specialist with a wide spectrum of interests. For
many people and scientists in Russia he is well-known as discoverer
of cavity structural effect (CSE). But is far from being all are
acquainted with his other opening, also borrowed from among
concealed secrets of living Nature. In 1988 he found out
antigravitational effects of chitinous shells of some insects species.
But the most astonishing attendant phenomenon associated with
antigravity was a phenomenon all on its own either partial
invisibility, or deformed visual perception of the material object
which was located in a zone of nulled gravitation. Based on this
opportunity and by using bionics principles, the author designed and
built an antigravitational platform, and also developed principles of
practical manned flight with the speed up to 1,500 km/hr. Since the
years 1991-92 years the device was used by the author as a means of
rapid transport. "
http://www.amasci.com/greb/greb2.html

The old saw about the impossibility of flight for a bumblebee is based
upon some bad theoretical physics. Some clueless engineer tried to
apply fixed-wing aerodynamics based on the erroneous assumption of the
applicability of Bernoulli's Principle to what is obviously NOT a
fixed-wing airframe. It was as stupid as trying to make a mirror out
of adobe.

Not only is the bee a movable-wing airframe but the Coanda effect is
the driving force for providing lift.

FWIW, the Coanda effect has been demonstrated under conditions such
that the Bernoulli effect would produce zero lift:
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/gfsuav/index.htm

Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA