Discussion:
galaxy with no dark matter
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Lofty Goat
2018-03-30 02:40:43 UTC
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For all those folks who say, "There's no dark matter, gravity behaves
weirdly way out there in outer space": Here's a galaxy with almost no
dark matter, which behaves exactly the way one might reasonably expect
based upon current, widely accepted ideas about gravity.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature25767

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/03/galaxy-seems-to-lack-dark-matter-stumping-astronomers/

https://www.space.com/40119-ghostly-galaxy-almost-no-dark-matter.html

Dark matter: Get used to it.
--
Goat / RLW
john
2018-03-30 12:42:43 UTC
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Lofty
"Dark matter: Get used to it.
"
So? What is it?
Michael Moroney
2018-03-30 15:06:25 UTC
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Post by john
Lofty
"Dark matter: Get used to it.
"
So? What is it?
We don't know yet.
(do you think that's a problem?)
Lofty Goat
2018-03-31 04:49:40 UTC
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Post by john
Lofty
"Dark matter: Get used to it.
"
So? What is it?
John, if we knew then we wouldn't be calling it by such a generic,
minimally descriptive name, would we? All we know is that it's there.

Indeed, if we knew everything, we'd quickly grow bored and move to one
of those other universes which string theory tells us about where things
can still happen, but differently from how they happen here.

And if we knew everything, we'd either be able to do that or we'd know
that they aren't there for us to visit.

But we're not omniscient, so there are still things left to discover.

This is one of them.

Clearly you're possessed of a sense of wonder, but you're taking the
easy way out by just making shit up. Go learn something, or do
something constructive, or something artistic, for fuck's sake.

Once eating, drinking, fucking and making money become routine, what
else is there that's worth doing?
--
Goat
john
2018-03-31 14:16:40 UTC
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"Goat

by just making shit up. Go learn something, or do
something constructive, or something artistic, for fuck's sake.

Once eating, drinking, fucking and making money become routine, what
else is there that's worth doing? "

Everything else is stamp collecting
--
Goat
reber G=emc^2
2018-03-31 20:07:01 UTC
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Post by Lofty Goat
"Goat
by just making shit up. Go learn something, or do
something constructive, or something artistic, for fuck's sake.
Once eating, drinking, fucking and making money become routine, what
else is there that's worth doing? "
Everything else is stamp collecting
--
Goat
Thinking Science beyond what's known Bert
hanson
2018-03-31 23:35:23 UTC
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___"reber G=EMC^2"<***@gmail.com> wrote:
"I park & bark in the dark. I'm of low wit & a stupid shit." Bert
This is "Thinking Science beyond what's known". Bert
"Why am I posting this, it's making me cry as it always does"
______ "Why am I not loved by all?". Bert.
hmmm...<snicker>...<chortle>...ahahahAHAHA...ROTFLMAO
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
2018-04-08 03:58:24 UTC
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Post by Lofty Goat
Post by john
Lofty
"Dark matter: Get used to it.
"
So? What is it?
John, if we knew then we wouldn't be calling it by such a generic,
minimally descriptive name, would we? All we know is that it's there.
We know more than that:

1. It has positive mass/energy.

2. It is interacting gravitationally.

3. It is not, at most barely, interacting electromagnetically.

If not (1) and (2), we could not observe its effects on spacetime curvature
as if baryonic matter would be there; if not (3), we could observe it
directly.

The “From” header field values of your postings are lacking a real name.


PointedEars
--
Q: What happens when electrons lose their energy?
A: They get Bohr'ed.

(from: WolframAlpha)
Libor 'Poutnik' Stříž
2018-04-08 07:44:15 UTC
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Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
Post by Lofty Goat
Post by john
Lofty
"Dark matter: Get used to it.
"
So? What is it?
John, if we knew then we wouldn't be calling it by such a generic,
minimally descriptive name, would we? All we know is that it's there.
1. It has positive mass/energy.
2. It is interacting gravitationally.
3. It is not, at most barely, interacting electromagnetically.
All 3 points are already implied
by "all we know is that it's there."

"..it's there" addresses 1. and 2.
"all we know is that.." addresses 3.
--
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.
john
2018-04-08 14:17:25 UTC
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Libor
"All 3 points are already implied
by "all we know is that it's there."

"..it's there" addresses 1. and 2.
"all we know is that.." addresses 3.

"
Yes.
Either something is there or Gravity is not independent upon Space.
However, nothing stands alone, and thinking that Gravity does is, well, thinking that the gravitating body is the only factor. So, before suggesting exotic physics, perhaps correct the obvious fault in your logic.
Libor Striz
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
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Post by john
Libor
"All 3 points are already implied
by "all we know is that it's there."
"..it's there" addresses 1. and 2.
"all we know is that.." addresses 3.
"
Yes.
Either something is there or Gravity is not independent upon Space.
Not or, but and.
Something is there AND Gravity is not independent upon space.
You myst know the famous Wheeler's quote:
"Matter tells space how to curve,
space tells matter how to move."
Post by john
However, nothing stands alone, and thinking that Gravity does is, well, thinking that the gravitating body is the only factor. So, before suggesting exotic physics, perhaps correct the obvious fault in your logic.
What logic ?
--
Libor Striz aka Poutnik ( a pilgrim/wanderer/wayfarer)


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
Michael Moroney
2018-04-08 16:14:48 UTC
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Post by john
Libor
"All 3 points are already implied
by "all we know is that it's there."
"..it's there" addresses 1. and 2.
"all we know is that.." addresses 3.
"
Yes.
Either something is there or Gravity is not independent upon Space.
However, nothing stands alone, and thinking that Gravity does is, well,
thinking that the gravitating body is the only factor. So, before
suggesting exotic physics, perhaps correct the obvious fault in your
logic.
Yes John, the original thinking was EITHER there is "something" (DM) there
which we can't see OR gravity doesn't work the same way on a large (galaxy
sized) scale. But the whole point of this thread was they found a galaxy
that doesn't need any dark matter "correction" and yet gravity still works
the same for it. That pretty much eliminates the part after the OR, so
that supports the idea that there really is something (dark matter) out
there in most galaxies.

So we're back to there really is "invisible heavy stuff" out there. It's
just a matter of figuring out what it is.
john
2018-03-30 13:13:59 UTC
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What a Fractal theory of Space says is, there are no empty places. The big is made from the small. The small is made from the smaller. There is no smallest. Space is FULL.
Yes, I know you guys can't visualize Fractal, and see empty Space, but our photons are too big for us to see smaller stuff. Which doesn't mean that smaller stuff isn't there. Space is FULL.

So, I was trying to figure out how all this OTHER unseen and as yet unrecognized Matter out there might show up as it does. ALL of Space, no matter what size, should have the same density. If it doesn't, there's a reason. The only reason can be SPIN. Wherever more of the Space has stored spin energy, maybe?

And now this limit on spinning disc galaxies of one billion years. It shows that this SPIN in Space has a FREQUENCY! Cool!
Michael Moroney
2018-03-30 15:30:24 UTC
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john <***@gmail.com> writes:

<snip illogical fractal claim>
Post by john
Yes, I know you guys can't visualize Fractal,
Oh, I like playing with fractals. Mandelbrot sets, Julia sets, even ferns
and lots of fun stuff like that. Your claim I can't "visualize" fractals
is way wrong.
Post by john
and see empty Space, but our
photons are too big for us to see smaller stuff. Which doesn't mean that
smaller stuff isn't there. Space is FULL.
So again, for the zillionth time, why do you claim this is true? [crickets]

Wait, I know. You are a graduate of the Archimedes Plutonium School of
Physics and Math, where you believe "If I thought it up, it MUST be true!"
Correct? [crickets]

Only problem with that school is they don't teach you how to explain _why_
you believe what you do. Archie P can't do that either, except to explain
one of his "If I thought it up, it MUST be true!" "proofs" by using one of
his earlier "If I thought it up, it MUST be true!" "proofs".
Post by john
So, I was trying to figure out how all this OTHER unseen and as yet
unrecognized Matter out there might show up as it does.
Before you do that, you need to look for evidence that it even exists at
all.
Post by john
ALL of Space, no matter what size, should have the same density.
But it doesn't.
Post by john
If it doesn't, there's a reason.
Yes. So far, so good.
Post by john
The only reason can be SPIN.
And wham! Off into the weeds you go again. A much better reason is that
your "theory" is quite simply WRONG. Remember, "If I thought it up, it
MUST be true!" gets you exactly nowhere in science.
Post by john
Wherever more of the Space has stored spin energy, maybe?
Maybe not. No, make that definitely not.
Post by john
And now this limit on spinning disc galaxies of one billion years.
WRONG. Yet again. It is the OUTERMOST EDGE of galaxies that seem to
have a revolution period of 1 billion years. Using the numbers YOU
provided, the Sun takes about 205 million years to do so. That's because
the Sun is not on the outer edge.

Why do you INSIST on clinging onto a false interpretation like that?
m***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 20:59:17 UTC
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Post by Lofty Goat
For all those folks who say, "There's no dark matter, gravity behaves
weirdly way out there in outer space": Here's a galaxy with almost no
dark matter, which behaves exactly the way one might reasonably expect
based upon current, widely accepted ideas about gravity.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature25767
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/03/galaxy-seems-to-lack-dark-matter-stumping-astronomers/
https://www.space.com/40119-ghostly-galaxy-almost-no-dark-matter.html
Dark matter: Get used to it.
--
Goat / RLW
If dark matter tugs from all directions the net effect is no
faster outer stars. There is an alternative phenomenon to create
faster stars.

Mitchell Raemsch

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